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I Love You, Because You're Just Like Me - Open Knowledge — LiveJournal

Jun. 30th, 2003

08:08 pm - I Love You, Because You're Just Like Me

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From:futuregirl
Date:June 30th, 2003 05:31 pm (UTC)

Oh.

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I'm in Wisconsin and I want my whole body frozen. Sorry, we are just incompatible.
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From:crasch
Date:June 30th, 2003 05:54 pm (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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Darn. All the good ones are whole body.
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From:ex0teric
Date:June 30th, 2003 07:16 pm (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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I think I love you!
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From:futuregirl
Date:June 30th, 2003 07:43 pm (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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Thanks. Want to join my fan club? ;-)
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From:ex0teric
Date:June 30th, 2003 09:20 pm (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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Sure, why not! XD
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From:crasch
Date:July 1st, 2003 10:44 am (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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So what are the membership requirements of this fan club? Is cheese involved?
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From:crasch
Date:July 1st, 2003 10:46 am (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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BTW, why whole body? Any technology that can repair the damaged caused by aging/disease/cryopreservation is going to be able to grow you a new one. Neuros cost 1/3rd less, require less maintenance, and are much easier to move safely should the need arise. (At least one patient is probably still in suspension as a result of the ability to move her head quickly.)
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From:futuregirl
Date:July 1st, 2003 01:19 pm (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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Because my boobs wanna see the future, too.
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From:crasch
Date:July 1st, 2003 01:24 pm (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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Sentient boobs! You're right, we wouldn't want to lose them.
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From:jozafiend
Date:July 5th, 2003 11:43 am (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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If you go whole body, there is more DNA material to work with if you should happen to need it. Also, evidence suggests that the spine contains important information. Wouldn't want to leave that out!

The Cryonics Institute does whole body for about as much as Alcor does neuros and is as good as Alcor, if not better imo.
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From:crasch
Date:July 5th, 2003 01:06 pm (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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There's plenty of DNA in the skin on the skull (or the brain itself) for any plausible future scenario requiring it.

The spine may contain some information, but I don't think it contains any information that I'm likely to miss. The main thing quadraplegics seem to missing is ability to control their limbs, and I think that will be easibly repairable in the future.

I worked at 21st Century Medicine for 2 years. Among my co-workers were Brian Wowk (president of Cryo-care, one of the original authors of Cryonics: Reaching for Tomorrow) and Mike Darwin (former president of Alcor). 21CM is funded by Saul Kent and Bill Falloon, who have served on the boards of directors of Alcor and Cryo-care. So my opinion should be taken with a grain of salt. However, I must take issue with the claim that "CI...is as good as Alcor, if not better..."

CI is able to charge less because a) they don't have their own "stand-by" team trained and ready to perform cryopreservation immediately after legal death b) they historically have done much less research than Alcor c) they make less conservative assumptions about the likely rate of growth of capital d) they don't (directly) offer vitrification to their members.

Will it matter? Since no one has ever been recovered from cryopreservation yet, it's impossible to say that CI's practices are insufficient, or that Alcor is wasting money on efforts that won't make any difference.

However, having seen first hand the damage that traditional glycerol cryopresevation causes (the technique used by CI) vs. vitrification (technique used by Alcor), I definitely want my brain vitrified.

That said, if one can't afford to be cryopreserved by Alcor, being cryopreserved by CI is better than no cryopreservation at all.
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From:jozafiend
Date:July 8th, 2003 09:28 am (UTC)

Re: Oh.

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You've definitely done more research on this, but these were some of my thoughts.

The spine is necessary if you have muscle memory skills like playing the piano, martial arts, something of that nature where your muscles are trained to respond without thought. Many people wouldn't miss it, but it's something to consider which I never see in the literature.

I thought the vitrification process was highly experimental at best. Now I don't really know what's involved and haven't looked into it. I suppose I should do so before signing up with anyone.

The other points I liked about CI which brought costs down were that they used mortuary-level sterilization, not hospital level sterilization, and the fact that they own the land on which they built their business unlike Alcor. I have never heard of their less conservative assumptions and would be interested to know more.

For the non-scientist, it's a lot of work to check out the backgrounds and mailings lists for key information to make the decision. And everyone seems to be biased. But thanks for the input!
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