Open Knowledge - My First Toga Party

Mar. 16th, 2008

10:18 pm - My First Toga Party

Being an introverted nerd in high school and college, I never attended any toga parties. Last night’s toga party, hosted by Iveta Brigis and John Smart, was my first. I had a great time–the crowd was packed with futurists, Googlers, engineers, and cryonicists of various stripes.

One question that generated a lot of discussion was the question: “If you only had 4 weeks to live, would you want to know?”

My answer was an immediate an emphatic “Yes!” I do a lot of things in the present that decrease my current happiness, with the expectation that the sacrifice now will increase the happiness/satisfaction of my future selves. For example, among other things, I save money, I work on boring tasks, I don’t have sex indiscriminately, and I don’t take drugs.

If I knew with certainty that I only have 4 weeks to live, I would want to know so that I could cease the now pointless preparations for my happiness in later life, and redirect those energies to maximizing my happiness in my remaining time.

Val (sp?), a stats grad student, claimed that STD’s were rampant in some nursing homes due to promiscuity among the residents, suggesting that perhaps they made they same calculations.

There were several people, however, who did not want to know. Some believed that the increased anxiety would make it difficult to live happily in their remaining time. Others hypothesized that those who wanted to know were generally unhappy with their day to day lives, whereas those who didn’t want to know were generally happy with their day to day life.

How you would know if you were generally less happy with your day to day life than everyone else? What if you have just as many “happy” feelings as the median person, but you have a higher standard before you would claim you were “happy” overall.

Original: craschworks - comments

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Comments:

From:	evillinn
Date:	March 17th, 2008 05:21 am (UTC)

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put the man in a toga and he goes all philosophical!

certainly there are pictures of the toga clad philosophers?

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From:	crasch
Date:	March 17th, 2008 05:24 am (UTC)

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Such pictures exist! But I forgot my camera, so I must depend on the kindness of strangers to post theirs.

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From:	kitiara
Date:	March 17th, 2008 05:25 am (UTC)

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“If you only had 4 weeks to live, would you want to know?”

Absolutely, if only so I could then find out how much credit I get to finance a four-week world tour that will still leave John with plenty of income from my life insurance once I kick the bucket. And of course get my final affairs in order.

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From:	crasch
Date:	March 17th, 2008 05:35 am (UTC)

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Exactly. I can't grok how anyone would not want to know.

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From:	kitiara
Date:	March 17th, 2008 05:42 am (UTC)

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I also just queried John about whether he'd want to know if I only had 4 weeks to live and he said absolutely, so he could be sure to bend to my every whim during that time frame so as not to feel any regret. And I'd feel the same if our roles were reversed.

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From:	crasch
Date:	April 1st, 2008 08:24 pm (UTC)

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so he could be sure to bend to my every whim

Doesn't he already do that?

:>

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From:	kitiara
Date:	April 1st, 2008 09:17 pm (UTC)

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For the most part, yes. :)

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From:	spoonless
Date:	March 17th, 2008 05:36 am (UTC)

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I do a lot of things in the present that decrease my current happiness, with the expectation that the sacrifice now will increase the happiness/satisfaction of my future selves. For example, among other things, I save money, I work on boring tasks, I don’t have sex indiscriminately, and I don’t take drugs.

Wow, I don't do a single one of those things... I must not give a shit about my future selves :) I hope it doesn't catch up with me some day.

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From:	girlvinyl
Date:	March 17th, 2008 07:25 am (UTC)

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I would definitely want to know. But I don't think that means I am "unhappy". I just live life differently when there is a lot more at stake. If you only have 4 weeks to live, that drastically reduces risk in your life, so you can supplement that risk with whatever you want right at that moment.

Plus, what about family, business and other administravia for those you care about? Seems a little selfish to prefer to put your family and loved ones through a "randomly drops dead" scenario.

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From:	reichart
Date:	March 17th, 2008 05:40 pm (UTC)

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Hmm, we have similar logic, but completely different manifestations.

- Day one: do all paperwork needed to ensure comfort and reduction of impact to those around me.
- Day two: Build list of people that need to be removed from this planet. Research list, confirm list, finalize list.
- Day three through 28: Actuate list.

See, I'll get to travel, meet new people, and while I'm not normally altruistic, I don't believe in any afterlife, so I might as well use my time to make what I hope is reality, and an ongoing reality for others, a little better, with no ethical quandary for them.

I just have to evade the authorities for 26 days…

I think I have a plot for a movie here. I think I will call it…"28 days"….Doh!

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From:	psychomagnet
Date:	March 20th, 2008 04:37 pm (UTC)

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If I believed in souls, I would venture a guess you and I were soulmates. *smirk* I was going to respond with a highly similar idea, but yours is so perfect, there is no need.

With no fear of an afterlife or a vengeful supernatural figure, the idea of death is nothing to worry about. It happens, game over. *poof* Of course I'd want to know if my time were quickly coming to a close, so I could speed up my impact on the earth I'm leaving behind.

If you want help writing that screenplay, let me know. I'm always up for a juicy writing project.

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From:	reichart
Date:	March 20th, 2008 06:01 pm (UTC)

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Writing a screenplay, bleh! I need help writing a manual to avoid getting caught!

This day WILL come, and while I might be geriatric at that point, I will need all the help I can get.

And in related news - From Barbara Resnick, PhD, CRNP, FAAN, FAANP

"People aged 65 years and older represented 12.4% of the population in the year 2000 but are expected to grow to be 20% of the population by 2030.[1] Those individuals aged 90 years and older are anticipated to have the largest increase in numbers. Along with the increase in number of older individuals, especially the old-old, there is an increase in evidence of "risky behaviors" among these individuals. The most commonly recognized risky behaviors include alcohol use, hazardous driving behavior, and unprotected sexual activity."

Finally, some good news!

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From:	crasch
Date:	April 1st, 2008 08:21 pm (UTC)

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I've thought a fair bit about who I would assassinate if I contracted an illness that would kill me in the near term. I came to the conclusion that I don't have enough information to know whether killing my favorite targets would actually result in a net benefit to the people and causes I support. Those who are assassinated tend to become martyrs, and their ideas propagated much farther than they would have otherwise. If JFK had lived, would he be held in such high regard? Or would he be regarded as the '60's version of Bill Clinton? Or Martin Luther King? Perhaps he would be considered e '60's version of Jesse Jackson.

In fact, it might be better to kill people you like, and make it seem like they were killed by your enemies. Thus, they become martyrs, and causes you oppose take a hit in public perception.

Of course, no one can ever find out that it was a false flag operation. If that happens, then you not only lose someone you like, but your cause takes a huge PR hit.

I think it would be a great premise for a movie, assuming it has not already been done.

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From:	reichart
Date:	April 1st, 2008 10:02 pm (UTC)

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Hmmmm. You and I have a different idea of "list".

One of the reasons these people became martyrs is because they were singled out, and killed for speaking up.

First - I may have to take out entire groups (50-200 people)

Second - Many of the people I would remove have never spoken publicly, making them unlikely pets of the media.

Third - I can't reveal my list, aside from being very very long, I would never want to hedge my options within the statistical reality of my own demise.

26 days would be a very short time to get this much done….busy busy busy…

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From:	radiantsun
Date:	March 17th, 2008 07:27 pm (UTC)

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Interesting re nursing home peeps. I've always been told it is because they do not know about STD's and need to be educated on it. Or that they think because they are old peopel their risk is low-- because they were in monogamous relationships (I'm assuming) during the time when people started talking abou STDs.

Also, I'd want to know if I had 4 weeks to live, as like you, I am not living with all of my resources committed to now, just some commited to now and some to later for the future self. And if I had 4 weeks I don't need later!

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From:	crasch
Date:	April 1st, 2008 08:22 pm (UTC)

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Yeah, I would wager old people don't think that they're at much risk, for the reasons you say.

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From:	fitfool
Date:	March 18th, 2008 12:04 pm (UTC)

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I think the ones who want to know have more of a control freak streak in them. I know I'm going to die but if I could schedule it and plan accordingly, that would be great. But I'd want them to be really really sure there wasn't going to be a later. I remember reading about one guy who was told he had a year left to live at most. He quit his job, cashed everything out and traveled the world and did all kinds of stuff but.... a year later he was still alive. And continued being alive. That would be problematic.

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From:	crasch
Date:	April 1st, 2008 08:22 pm (UTC)

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Yeah, it would suck to burn through all your savings, and then not die. Especially if you had huge medical bills to deal with.

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From:	fitfool
Date:	April 2nd, 2008 12:45 pm (UTC)

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Then again, at least you could say you had lived each day as if it were your last.

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From:	inpetto
Date:	March 18th, 2008 05:13 pm (UTC)

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How you would know if you were generally less happy with your day to day life than everyone else?

You could take a depression inventory. I figure if we can have such inventories, we can probably make differently scaled ones that measure happiness. Oh wait.... they <a href='http://www.coachingtohappiness.com/happiness-test.html>exist</a>. Now whether the subjective happinesses of two different people are even comparable quantities is debatable, but the way we describe our own happiness to others clearly is.

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From:	crasch
Date:	April 1st, 2008 08:28 pm (UTC)

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Yes. And I suppose that certain feelings may be comparable. For example, if you say that you feel like killing yourself, and someone else says the same thing, perhaps you can say they are both feeling badly, even if the magnitude of the badness is unknown.

Although, I wonder how many people want to kill themselves, but don't feel badly? Like Maude's character in Harold and Maude.

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